Apple you got the name wrong: Vista is the Time Machine!
Vista has been, and still is, receiving a dreadful amount of bad press lately, both from individual geeks and well-known review websites. The reasons for that happening are completely substantiated, lack of drivers, software stability issues and outdated functionality. Many people such as Chris Pirillo and many other bloggers have expressed their dislikes about Windows Vista and even some who were Windows fanatics are now coming out publicly, in front of their communities, recanted and moved to Mac OS X.
As you may be aware, I use Mac OS X Leopard on my MacBook. It is by far my favourite operating system that I have used in ages in terms of features not stability. Leopard is one of the most unstable pieces of software I have EVER used. It’s kernel panic after panic after more panics. I’M FED UP WITH IT!
On Skype the other day, I was quite simply astounded. I was in a call with somebody and my entire mac froze, Skype had partially locked up, however I could still hear his audio and he could mine. When I told him that the system had crashed, he said that he didn’t know that macs ever crashed.
Every operating system sucks, after all it’s technology which is made by humans and as I’m sure we all know, nobody can ever be truly perfect so that means the software we create is victim to those same parameters.
In my house we run three computers, two of which are running Windows Vista 32bit. Neither of the notebooks have fallen victim to the dreaded BSOD. Within the last few weeks I could not even attempt to try and estimate the number of kernel panics I’ve had on OS X.
I am only one person in a huge collection of people, some of whom hate Windows Vista but I can honestly say that I have experienced zero issues in the many months I’ve run it leading up to purchase of my first OS X system,
User Interfaces however is another problem all in its own league. I am going to start by being completely transparent; before I used OS X I thought Vista was the best thing that ever happened to the computing world. It was only when I saw Leopard that I truly recognized the many flaws in Vista. Sometimes I think we have to see what better things are out there before we are willing to move from our current, STABLE, work environment.
Time Machine should not have been the name of a feature inside OS X. In the same manner as Vista should not have its name. The reasoning behind this is so simple; Using Vista is like going back years because all the “new” features that they’ve added are things that Apple had for years.
If you think that OS X is off the hook you are absolutely beyond foolish, just like Vista has an ancient feature set that they like to refer to as innovative, Mac OS X has huge mounds of stability issues and I’m so fed up with the constant crashing.
Now I’m going to stop this post and invite you, the community, to submit your thoughts, feedback, comments and experiences, which can ether be done by emailing me at tom@therogersfamilyonline.com or by commenting on this post.
May 6, 2008 at 8:07 pm
You’ve obviously got something wrong with your MacBook - get it fixed! My macBook runs Leopard and all sorts of doggy shareware and Beta software and has never ever had a KP. There’s lots of Apple repair shops around just pop in and ask them to fix it for you.
May 6, 2008 at 8:27 pm
I have 20+ users running Leopard w/o any major issues (the issues we have are mostly with Adobe products, but nothing serious). If you are experiencing all of those crashes, as the Huw says above, there is something wrong. It’s not an OS issue. Probably bad RAM or maybe a logic board that needs fixed.
Why haven’t you taken it to the Apple Store?
May 6, 2008 at 8:35 pm
Hi,
Until Apple fixes all the problem with 10.5, I would say it is “Apple’s Vista” Apple should not have released this OS. Hopefully they will fix all the problems in 10.5.3 update. Until then I’m not touching 10.5 with a 10 foot pole.
May 6, 2008 at 8:39 pm
There is no operating system that ships these days that would crash as often as you describe without help from some seriously buggy third party drivers or more likely hardware trouble. I’d check the quality of your memory, etc. first. If you don’t find anything obvious, I’d then reinstall the OS (clean install) and just install/run the basics for a week or so. If the problem persists, you definitely have hardware problems. I use Leopard and Vista regularly. Leopard, like Vista, is a very stable OS.
Along that line, you haven’t mentioned any sort of troubleshooting or calls for technical support. I suppose it’s easier to just complain about it in a blog and wait for the answers to come to you.
May 6, 2008 at 8:41 pm
I would say that 99% of the time, the reason the any Mac gets a Kernel Panic is due to bad RAM. I haven’t had a system crash in years, and I run alpha & beta software quite a lot. I will get application crashes, but never a kernel panic. the only time that I did get a Kernel Panic, I swapped out my 3rd party RAM and I have never got a Panic since.
May 6, 2008 at 8:44 pm
Not had any serious problems with Leopard. You must have a lemon. They do exist. I had an original iMac, it was piece of crap!
May 6, 2008 at 8:58 pm
Skype crashes on a lot of leopard machines, not sure if Tiger is all A-OK for skype comparatively. Just listen to a typical podcast where the speakers meet up with Skype. I suspect any weirdness about your network could make Skype burp.
May 6, 2008 at 9:06 pm
Ditto the above comment - a kernal panic is almost always related to hardware, and/or the driver for some piece of hardware. Could be dodgy RAM, a web cam, a USB handset etc.
I’m running Leopard on over half a dozen different machines, from old PPC stuff to the latest Intel and have yet to see an OS crash or KP issue. This is not to say that you don’t have an issue, but that whatever your issue is, it probably has its roots in some hardware, either internally (RAM, Hard Drive or other circuitry) or in something you have plugged into your computer.
Leopard has it’s quirks, for sure, but it is not incompatible with itself.
May 6, 2008 at 9:06 pm
I tend to agree with Huw. I have run OS X since 10.0 and have not experienced a kernel panic. I Leave the machine on all the time. Applications fail, but never locked up the machine except for a HDD failure.
May 6, 2008 at 11:21 pm
If you bought third party memory, you might want to try swapping it out and replacing it with Apple’s original RAM and see if the problem still happens. Frequent crashes are most often due to bad memory.
You may want to replace your RAM with RAM from another vendor, if it doesn’t work well on your computer. A lot of cheaper vendors have uneven quality control and this is a common problem for that reason.
You should consider an “Archive and Install” of the OS, which replaces the base operating system but leaves your applications intact.
Hope that helps. As others have said, this is far from normal in Apple Land.
D
May 6, 2008 at 11:21 pm
Do a full hardware test first. Then install a fresh system on an external drive and try it out for a week see if panics go away
May 6, 2008 at 11:35 pm
I’m an IT for Macs, my son is an IT at the University of Kansas for PCs and Macs. I have a PC here and have installed dozens of Macs with virtual Vista using Parallels and VMware. No kernel panics yet on Leopard and they were rare on Tiger. Also, I am fairly certain I use more software titles than you do, due to my years and breadth of business interests. In either case, you definitely need to have your system check out. We have no crashing problems with any OS we run: Vista, XP Pro, Ubuntu 7.10 and 8.10, or Mac OS X. They are all very stable. We like Macs best, but we expect our systems to perform well regardless of which OS happens to be booted.
May 7, 2008 at 12:10 am
Yea I agree with Huw Evans…….if you are having kernel panics you have a hardware issue of some type. Maybe third party RAM you have installed??
Leopard has been the fastest and most stable version of OS X to date in my experience. Safari and browsing the internet has gotten alot more stable and will get better as soon as webkit gets updated within safari to get the javascript performance boosts.
But if you are always getting kernel panics its most likely hardware! I would start with the RAM!! Macs are very picky about the RAM its running! If its what came with the system then you may have gotten a bad stick when you purchased your laptop.
-Dan
May 7, 2008 at 12:19 am
Something is definitely off with your Leopard installation. Among the half-dozen or so Macs I work with (Leopard and Tiger) I haven’t seen kernel panic in about two years. I know that doesn’t make you feel any better but it should be a clue that there are specific issues with your installation rather than general issues with Leopard. Hope it works out for you.
May 7, 2008 at 12:23 am
Your crashing may be due to bad memory. Try swapping out or by process of elimination (if you have more than one ram chip) running one memory module at a time and see if the problem persists with one or the other.
My money is on the bad memory chip.
May 7, 2008 at 12:47 am
I’ve had no issues with leopard a on a PowerMac G5. Infact it runs better than Tiger did.
May 7, 2008 at 12:50 am
Over the years I have never had a crashing problem or lockup (with one exception a flashed voodoo III card running Falcon 4 - shows how long I have been using Macs). My observation - there seems to be some people who have problems and some as Huw says that do not.
It would be good to get to the bottom of it - I suspect tho that a lot of it comes from “tinkering” but not always. Some maybe hardware (ram is common). Some maybe how the upgrade in software goes - a faulty install in one or more aspects. These upgrades are big installs these days. I always use the combo updaters.
There is always a reason for the problems, the fact that some people are not having problems and some are is not a reason to call Leo flaky per se even tho it does and will have issues like almost all software.
May 7, 2008 at 12:51 am
You likely have bad ram.
May 7, 2008 at 1:14 am
The problem is in your hardware. I have been using Leopard since day one on a Mac Pro and never had a kernel panic, knock on wood, and use it daily to make a living. Never used Vista but my Dell with XP freezes up at least three times a week under light use. There is an old saying in photography - “it is the operator not the camera”. Think about it.
May 7, 2008 at 1:15 am
Definitely sounds like a hardware issue. Take it in and get it taken care of while it’s under warranty.
May 7, 2008 at 1:32 am
Your experience is not normal, I agree that you should have your Macbook looked at. Customer saisfaction surveys consistently show Vista in the 20-30% range, XP 50-60%, and Leopard 80-90%. I am probably more positive than most people on Vista, I run it on two machines, but there is no way it is a more stable environment than Leopard, something strange is going on.
May 7, 2008 at 1:33 am
Kernel panics are a hardware problem.
May 7, 2008 at 2:15 am
I agree. What you’re seeing is not normal. There is something wrong with your Mac. I use 3 different Macs regularly (sometimes all at once) and get maybe one kernel panic every 3 months. Take your computer to the local Apple Store genius bar. Or if that’s not possible, there are a number of fixes to try. In no particular order: Run TechTool Pro to do a complete diagnostic. Repair permissions. Remove and reseat RAM. Remove any third party RAM and try it without it. Reinstall the OS (if you use archive and install you won’t have to mess around with restoring your settings.
May 7, 2008 at 2:32 am
Nobody should have to deal with kernel panics, and your experience with Leopard does not sound normal. I have it on several machines and it’s solid like a rock, and forgiving too. I would seek out help from Apple support or perhaps take it in to an Apple store because that many restarts would drive me nuts too.
Stability issues aside, your basic premise (penned out of frustration perhaps) is right: Apple isn’t totally off the hook with Leopard, and there are many things that need to be tweaked to make it more consistent. The good news is that Apple is constantly working on updates. And I still think it’s the best OS ever.
May 7, 2008 at 3:03 am
Leopard is the most stable of three OSs I work with on a MacBook, MacBook Pro, iMac, and Mac Pro. Sounds like faulty RAM to me. I would try a clean install or bring it into an Apple Store to have it fixed.
May 7, 2008 at 3:05 am
I have a first-gen MacBook. It was rock solid under Tiger. With Leopard my MacBook has kernel panics about every day. I’ve run memtest and my memory passes with no errors.
I’m getting pretty fed up.
May 7, 2008 at 3:15 am
You are a joke, if you are not happy with your macbook donate it to some third world country, that way you can make someone very happy and fixed your mac before donating, Secondly get yourself a pc and use xp since you are so unhappy with vista. Now all your problems are solved.
May 7, 2008 at 3:20 am
If you’re not running Disk Warrior once a month (by booting from a Disk Warrior CD), then the crashing is your own fault. I’ve been a Mac tech since the very beginning, and I know for a fact that you MUST do your monthly maintenance with Disk Warrior. It simply fixes a damaged directory structure, which is what this sounds like. If you use it as preventive maintenance, then the crashing will simply never happen. Set up an iCal alarm for the first of each month to remind yourself!
May 7, 2008 at 4:01 am
Skype 2.7.0.257 has known problems on OS X 10.5.2 (on some Macs); and yet you blame Apple. Odd.
May 7, 2008 at 4:25 am
If your Mac is KP’ing that frequently, there’s most certainly a hardware problem with it. The first thing I usually look for is cheap 3rd party RAM — often, folks coming over from years of Windows experience will use the same RAM vendors that they’ve always used, but don’t realize that Macs are much less tolerant of cheaper RAM than most Windows boxes are, and they’ll get the cheap stuff. I’d say 80% of the KPs I’ve seen (as a Mac technician) have been caused by cheap/bad RAM. Other things to look for are old, outdated wireless base stations (say, 4 years or older, no longer supported by their manufacturer), or connected peripherals (HDs, printers, scanners, etc.). For a clue as to what may be causing the KPs, open Console and check your Panic logs.
May 7, 2008 at 5:49 am
You might want to try doing a clean install and not an upgrade. You may have already done that though… I can guarantee that 90% of people having problems did an upgrade from Tiger–and that has had some issues.
Brian
May 7, 2008 at 6:03 am
Yup sounds like your mac is poked mate. Have been running Leopard for the last few months as a Java and Ruby on Rails programming platform and likewise have installed all sorts of libraries, databases, daemosn and software from here, there and everywhere. Including, weirdo drivers and system preferences panels and not a single KP yet.
Infact I don’t think I have even had a system freeze yet. Had a programming IDE freeze on me when I maxed out the the memory usage but after “force quitting” the IDE life got back to normal.
You wanna see someone about getting your hardware fixed. Good be some dodgy RAM or Mombo.
May 7, 2008 at 7:36 am
I have a Mac Pro 2008, a Mac Pro 2.66 (original) and an original MacBook Pro. Other than the initial problems with my Mac Pro 2008 fixed with the firmware and video patches, I have not had one problem with any of them since 10.5.2, and it has never seen a KP. Methinks you have another problem…..
May 7, 2008 at 12:22 pm
Yes I confirm. Kernel Panic are allways related to Hardware (RAM, logicboard) or Drivers installed by 3rd parties (USB Handset, USB ADSL modem, Badly Designed 3rd party utilities).
Try reinstalling a brand new Leopard with no 3rd parties (except of courses D&D applications) and use it for few days. If every thing is OK it’s not due to your computer. Overwise call Apple Support and ask for a replacement.
May 7, 2008 at 1:46 pm
I will just jump in with others here. KPs are a hardware problem, and you need to get it fixed. I tend to a small Leopard colony (many are Mac Books) and only a Mac Book that was defective have had a KP.
May 7, 2008 at 1:56 pm
One more thing. I have read another site or two a couple months back were a new Mac user was putting up with crap like you describe. With older Windows systems folk become use to this sort of thing and put up with it. Long time Mac users would not let this go past the first three KPs before calling Apple or heading to an Apple store. After a couple of years of Mac use you too will not put up with this kind of thing.